Empty's Soapbox : Perception and Feel - "Sim" is a Lie. (Assetto Corsa KTM X-Bow @ Imola)
0The discussion begins. Feel free to pass this video around and get some serious discussion going, hopefully civilized.
Serious description begins now.
Niels' AC 458 Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCNNV80nmms&feature=c4-overview&list=UUM04nNJ25Z9SasigaqXOetg
His rFactor NSX Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFutO8GzWXk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUM04nNJ25Z9SasigaqXOetg
There is a reason I like those two videos. You should probably watch them. I think they highlight the thought that "sim" physics are more a philosophy than concrete - straight from the guy who did the GSC physics, which are brilliant IMHO. Yet to some, feel wooden / plastic-y / arcade / not real. I'd strongly disagree, some would say I'm crazy.
There once was a time (probably still true) where iRacing was basically said "by the numbers and only the numbers, no fudge room!" That is where a lot of the iceRacing accusations started. The Star Mazda (kind of a fatter more powerful F3) back then was impossible to spin unless you drove over a curb. I mean literally impossible to spin, it made the GSC F3 car look like an unruly beast. Touch a curb though, you die though. Was that right? The numbers said so. The model said so, so it must be perfect? I think we all know a Star Mazda type car wont insta spin upon the first contact with any curbing while having UBER grip any other time. Yea, probably wrong. It is wrong.
Remember the "Worlds Fastest Alien" article? Now, Huttu is well, the worlds fastest alien, but he had never even driven a car, let alone a full blown winged open wheel car. He was off the pace by a couple seconds, but for having never driven a car - according to some he should have blown up into a thousand pieces because we all "know" race cars kill people.
Right, or wrong? That is the question. The answer is of course he could drive it and not explode into bits or something. He did puke though. So I guess he did explode. Yes, you do see what I did there.
Let's just use some logic - why would you expect a race car built for racing with a ultra low CG to spin it's slick tires up in second gear with 250 HP like a Can Am car?
For some, that makes things "more realistic". It makes them drive in a more "realistic" manner, when in reality 250 HP on street tires is easily managed, let alone slicks built for racing. They approach it "softer", afraid of the "bite", more as they would in the real world. So in a way, despite being overly difficult to drive, it is "more realistic".
Meanwhile, a car with perhaps the correct amount of grip after years of "difficult is realistic" basically feels like playing Grid. GRIP. FER. DAYZ. You basically put on your superhero cape and laugh at no grip, for you are now suddenly feeling like Huttu. It feels wrong, like you somehow "broke" the game. The physics aren't working, it's so super hard to spin...
Perception is this.
Honestly, there are catalysts for this video.
For one, people saying rF2 has some sort of amazing physics that are the end all be all right now. Frankly, I don't feel it. I've done videos of it before so I can drive it well enough. It just quite frankly feels "wrong" in my hands. No, I'm not a rFactor noob, I know it needs tweaking and I've done just about anything I can throw at it. It still doesnt jive with me.
Meanwhile, I'm told rF2 and GSC2013 are the gold standards for physics. If you know one thing about sim racing me, it's I'm a GSC fanboy to a degree. I love that sim. It feels absolutely NOTHING like rF2. Not even close. One I instantly connected with, one I still have no clue what the hell it is after what, 20 months? But they are both sims... This isnt a knock on rF2 - I will say I'm not really a huge fan right now - but how is that possible?
AC Formula Abarth having too much grip according to some. The M3 GT2 supposedly the same. On Hard tires they would actually race on, the car comes to life. It acts very similar to the rF2 C6R GT2... yet one feels like it's attempting to chuck itself into a wall, the other is composed. Same corrections same inputs same driver - vastly different feel. Which is right? The one that feels natural? The one that people say is better? Who is people and what do I care?
iceRacing. I've been there 4 years now, never once have I thought that true. No fanboyism, I've said numerous times Im not an iRacing fan for physics. Though, I was "raised" on papyrus sims - iR still feels very natural, an extension of that lineage even though it isn't at this point.
rF2 / iR / Simbin / RealFeel (to a degree) vs AC FFB... Realistic isnt always better. But this is a sim, right? Wait... sorta?
TL; DR - I typed that up, you didn't read... you should give this video a thumbs up for my effort and carry on about your day. I tried, that's worth something, right? So what is "sim", what is "realistic" when everyone's "feel" tells them something different?
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