DFFOO [JP] Laguna's Desperado on enemy turns - Kelger x2 trigger with preemptive/counter on 1 enemy

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Knightningale90

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Published on May 18, 2023 12:00:00 AM ● Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cok9zDHnyfg

Game:

Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia (2017)

Duration: 16:10

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9

Not Laguna FR yet (hopefully I get it), but just some combo you can do with newer characters with relatively known mechacnis. Here we focus on the reactive elements of it.

Kelger is chosen because he both attacks before and after the enemy on his own. He even actively attacks without enemy targeting the party, unlike Cor who is reactive to enemy targeting. I threw in Cor for his FR and the ease of seeing the effects of the preemptive strike group, but Kelger himself can be a one-man army of triggering both Laguna's Desperado explosion "twice on the same enemy with just one enemy action". As to why this phrase is in quotation, that will be explained later on.
I also avoided Ace this time for a particular reason.

Long video because of numerous fragmented HP bonus triggers, so use the time stamps for skipping ahead:

00:00 Prep phase (kidna specific with those buffs and debuffs tbh)
06:30 Case 1: Target A before A gets its turn
08:19 FR starts
09:10 Case 2: A gets double turn

Recap on Desperado:
A. On-Turns
Desperado triggers ONCE PER ENEMY within one action. To trigger it, one must ATTACK the target and the trigger attack must have targeting itself.

Preemptive strikes and follow-ups are grouped with the on-turn character's attacks within the same player turn, so you can only get ONE explosion out of one enemy.
Though the preemptive strikes and follow-ups themselves WITH TARGETING can still trigger the explosion.
(If you want to test it, just use Laguna/Leo/character with debuff AA (e.g. Ursula). Before Leo BT, Ursula AA would not trigger desperado. After Leo BT, Ursula AA would trigger Leo BT and desperado. Most AOE follow-ups however don't target a specific enemy, so they don't trigger an explosion)

As for Ace/Sice traps, they trigger different enemy's explosions ONCE, because their traps individually targets an enemy.

On Enemies' Turns:
The rule is still one trigger per enemy within one action. Though why is "Kelger trigger the explosion twice on the same enemy"?

This is because enemy's turn/action has already passed when the counter kicks in. The rule is one trigger per enemy per action/turn. So as you can see, after the preemptive strikes from Cor/Kelger, there is one set of explosion before the enemy even takes action. Then when Kelger counters, it also set off another one.
These explosions are also 100% triggering off of the same enemy,

Normal Case:
Normally, if the turn goes like enemy A -- B -- A -- B, then it looks like this:
Counter on A | Preemptive on B | B's turn | Counter on B | Preemptive on A
(Desperado A)| (Desperado B) | | (Desperado B)| (Desperado A)


How do you explain the cases highlighted by the timestamp then? Suddenly the preemptive strikes are not triggering anything in those cases?

Counters/Preemptive strikes/Follow-up sharing the same space:
By this I mean the counter from previous turn share the same trigger timing as the preemptive strike on the target on the next turn. It goes like this:

For case 1:
Player Action on A + Preemptive Strike | A's turn | Counter on A
(Desperado A) X | | (Desperado A)

Preemptive strikes are regarded as BEFORE enemy's turn. So it shares the same trigger timing with the last player action. Therefore you see that at 06:30 after Kelger BT targeting A triggering an explosion, nothing happened after x3 Cor and x2 Kelger preemptive strikes. It wasn't until Kelger counter then another explosion occurs.

For case 2:
Lightning got broken, so Behemoth got two turns in a row.
What happened there was:

Counter from last turn on A + Preemptive Strike | A's turn | Counter on A
(Desperado A) X | | (Desperado A)

Since counters and preemptives share the same slot, if A gets two turns in a row, it means the counters and preemptives would be on the same target. So you never see the preemptive strikes triggering any explosions, as the quota has been met by the counter from previous turn.

* Compared to the normal case with turn ABAB, the counters from previous turn and preemptive strikes on current turn never have an overlapping target, so BOTH triggers can trigger an explosion on the SAME enemy caused by ONE enemy turn.

How about Ace/Sice traps?
They are largely treated as the same as follow-ups and counters. The only difference is it trigger off of both enemies.
If you put Ace with Kelger, as long as his traps continuously trigger on both targets, Kelger's preemptive strikes will never trigger a desperado explosion, since Ace's trap also already took its place.

So what is the TLDR?
1. Target the enemy that is not having the next turn (if not recovering from break)
So that you don't take away the trigger off of the preemptive strike on enemy's turn.

2. Use preemptive strikes and counters while trying to avoid the same enemy getting turns

3. Use Ace/Sice to trigger explosions on different enemies instead

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